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	<title>Comments on: Crossing the Finish Line: The SAT and ACT</title>
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	<link>http://www.quickanded.com/2009/11/crossing-the-finish-line-the-sat-and-act.html</link>
	<description>The Quick and the Ed is an education blog published by Education Sector, an independent think tank in Washington D.C. The Quick and the Ed offers in-depth analysis on the latest in education policy and research.</description>
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		<title>By: alQpr &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Crossing the Finish Line: The SAT and ACT ~ Stephen&#8217;s Web ~ by Stephen Downes</title>
		<link>http://www.quickanded.com/2009/11/crossing-the-finish-line-the-sat-and-act.html/comment-page-1#comment-2367</link>
		<dc:creator>alQpr &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Crossing the Finish Line: The SAT and ACT ~ Stephen&#8217;s Web ~ by Stephen Downes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Nov 2009 08:33:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.quickanded.com/?p=8408#comment-2367</guid>
		<description>[...] Downes points to Chad Adelman posting on Crossing the Finish Line - a recent book about university graduation rates by William G. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Downes points to Chad Adelman posting on Crossing the Finish Line &#8211; a recent book about university graduation rates by William G. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Idea of the day: ditch standardized tests &#171; Law and Education Blog</title>
		<link>http://www.quickanded.com/2009/11/crossing-the-finish-line-the-sat-and-act.html/comment-page-1#comment-2359</link>
		<dc:creator>Idea of the day: ditch standardized tests &#171; Law and Education Blog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Nov 2009 06:45:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.quickanded.com/?p=8408#comment-2359</guid>
		<description>[...] of the students.  In his brief review of the new book Crossing the Finishing Line, Chad Alderman shows convincingly that standardized test scores have little predictive powers of student graduation [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] of the students.  In his brief review of the new book Crossing the Finishing Line, Chad Alderman shows convincingly that standardized test scores have little predictive powers of student graduation [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Chad Aldeman</title>
		<link>http://www.quickanded.com/2009/11/crossing-the-finish-line-the-sat-and-act.html/comment-page-1#comment-2348</link>
		<dc:creator>Chad Aldeman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Nov 2009 15:59:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.quickanded.com/?p=8408#comment-2348</guid>
		<description>Peter, 

We already have rampant grade inflation in high schools, and we had it in 1999 when the students in the sample graduated. And we&#039;d rather have kids competing on four years of classwork than one 4-hour test. When the authors introduced a dummy variable for high school (not even really a proxy for school quality), the value of SAT/ ACT in predicting a student&#039;s eventual graduation turned negative.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Peter, </p>
<p>We already have rampant grade inflation in high schools, and we had it in 1999 when the students in the sample graduated. And we&#8217;d rather have kids competing on four years of classwork than one 4-hour test. When the authors introduced a dummy variable for high school (not even really a proxy for school quality), the value of SAT/ ACT in predicting a student&#8217;s eventual graduation turned negative.</p>
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		<title>By: peter</title>
		<link>http://www.quickanded.com/2009/11/crossing-the-finish-line-the-sat-and-act.html/comment-page-1#comment-2345</link>
		<dc:creator>peter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Nov 2009 15:02:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.quickanded.com/?p=8408#comment-2345</guid>
		<description>&quot;the Ed, has declared dead the usefulness of the SAT/ACT. It wasn’t his idea; he read it in Crossing the Finish Line: Crossing the Finish Line has things to say about virtually every important factor in college life,&quot;

Just the opposite: This demonstrates the usefulness of the SAT/ACT as measures of high school quality!  The average GPA of a high school can be changed at the stroke of a grading policy - Relying on GPA will result in parents pushing for, and getting, grade inflation in high schools.  

Yes, rely on GPA for college admissions, but norm the high schools with an objective test like the ACT.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;the Ed, has declared dead the usefulness of the SAT/ACT. It wasn’t his idea; he read it in Crossing the Finish Line: Crossing the Finish Line has things to say about virtually every important factor in college life,&#8221;</p>
<p>Just the opposite: This demonstrates the usefulness of the SAT/ACT as measures of high school quality!  The average GPA of a high school can be changed at the stroke of a grading policy &#8211; Relying on GPA will result in parents pushing for, and getting, grade inflation in high schools.  </p>
<p>Yes, rely on GPA for college admissions, but norm the high schools with an objective test like the ACT.</p>
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		<title>By: Chad Aldeman</title>
		<link>http://www.quickanded.com/2009/11/crossing-the-finish-line-the-sat-and-act.html/comment-page-1#comment-2338</link>
		<dc:creator>Chad Aldeman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Nov 2009 05:41:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.quickanded.com/?p=8408#comment-2338</guid>
		<description>Matthew, 

You&#039;re right that we can&#039;t measure &quot;college success&quot; much better than &quot;obtaining a degree.&quot; That&#039;s unfortunate, but you have to remember that almost all previous studies have defined &quot;success&quot; as &quot;first-year college grades&quot; or &quot;one-year retention rate.&quot; Surely you&#039;d agree that success is closer to graduation than it is to those interim measures.  

By mocking perseverance--which I tend to think is a pretty important trait for just about everything in life--you&#039;re also shifting the discussion away from college admissions policies to college quality in general. I tend to agree with you on the quality issue, but we still need a way to apportion scarce seats in good universities. This post was about how best to do that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Matthew, </p>
<p>You&#8217;re right that we can&#8217;t measure &#8220;college success&#8221; much better than &#8220;obtaining a degree.&#8221; That&#8217;s unfortunate, but you have to remember that almost all previous studies have defined &#8220;success&#8221; as &#8220;first-year college grades&#8221; or &#8220;one-year retention rate.&#8221; Surely you&#8217;d agree that success is closer to graduation than it is to those interim measures.  </p>
<p>By mocking perseverance&#8211;which I tend to think is a pretty important trait for just about everything in life&#8211;you&#8217;re also shifting the discussion away from college admissions policies to college quality in general. I tend to agree with you on the quality issue, but we still need a way to apportion scarce seats in good universities. This post was about how best to do that.</p>
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		<title>By: SAT/ACT Mean Nothing? &#8212; Education for the Aughts - American School Issues and Analysis</title>
		<link>http://www.quickanded.com/2009/11/crossing-the-finish-line-the-sat-and-act.html/comment-page-1#comment-2332</link>
		<dc:creator>SAT/ACT Mean Nothing? &#8212; Education for the Aughts - American School Issues and Analysis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Nov 2009 00:02:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.quickanded.com/?p=8408#comment-2332</guid>
		<description>[...] the Ed, has declared dead the usefulness of the SAT/ACT. It wasn&#8217;t his idea; he read it in Crossing the Finish Line: Crossing the Finish Line has things to say about virtually every important factor in college life, [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] the Ed, has declared dead the usefulness of the SAT/ACT. It wasn&#8217;t his idea; he read it in Crossing the Finish Line: Crossing the Finish Line has things to say about virtually every important factor in college life, [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Matthew K. Tabor</title>
		<link>http://www.quickanded.com/2009/11/crossing-the-finish-line-the-sat-and-act.html/comment-page-1#comment-2331</link>
		<dc:creator>Matthew K. Tabor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Nov 2009 22:49:48 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Apologies - Aldeman, not Alderman. Auto-correct in Word has now been turned off.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Apologies &#8211; Aldeman, not Alderman. Auto-correct in Word has now been turned off.</p>
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		<title>By: Matthew K. Tabor</title>
		<link>http://www.quickanded.com/2009/11/crossing-the-finish-line-the-sat-and-act.html/comment-page-1#comment-2329</link>
		<dc:creator>Matthew K. Tabor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Nov 2009 22:36:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.quickanded.com/?p=8408#comment-2329</guid>
		<description>Keep in mind that Alderman&#039;s entire argument - and the authors&#039; - rests on the definition of &quot;college success&quot; being &quot;graduation&quot; or &quot;obtaining a degree/certification.&quot;

In theory, that&#039;s sufficient. I&#039;d prefer to talk about reality.

In reality, some degrees are watered-down and border on useless. At some institutions, the majority of programs fall into this category. If we pretend for a second that the degrees they award are little more than certificates of attendance and good standing with the Bursar&#039;s Office, we do higher education reform a disservice.

Bowen, McPherson and Chingos, in a roundabout way, may have just proven not that SAT/ACT scores indicate nothing, but that high school GPA-as-harbinger means higher education is increasingly mimicking the weakness of the average American public high school.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Keep in mind that Alderman&#8217;s entire argument &#8211; and the authors&#8217; &#8211; rests on the definition of &#8220;college success&#8221; being &#8220;graduation&#8221; or &#8220;obtaining a degree/certification.&#8221;</p>
<p>In theory, that&#8217;s sufficient. I&#8217;d prefer to talk about reality.</p>
<p>In reality, some degrees are watered-down and border on useless. At some institutions, the majority of programs fall into this category. If we pretend for a second that the degrees they award are little more than certificates of attendance and good standing with the Bursar&#8217;s Office, we do higher education reform a disservice.</p>
<p>Bowen, McPherson and Chingos, in a roundabout way, may have just proven not that SAT/ACT scores indicate nothing, but that high school GPA-as-harbinger means higher education is increasingly mimicking the weakness of the average American public high school.</p>
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