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	<title>Comments on: The Meaning of Merit Pay</title>
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	<link>http://www.quickanded.com/2009/09/the-meaning-of-merit-pay.html</link>
	<description>The Quick and the Ed is an education blog published by Education Sector, an independent think tank in Washington D.C. The Quick and the Ed offers in-depth analysis on the latest in education policy and research.</description>
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		<title>By: Teach Your Children Well &#171; Around The Sphere</title>
		<link>http://www.quickanded.com/2009/09/the-meaning-of-merit-pay.html/comment-page-1#comment-1701</link>
		<dc:creator>Teach Your Children Well &#171; Around The Sphere</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Sep 2009 13:18:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.quickanded.com/?p=7682#comment-1701</guid>
		<description>[...] Kevin Carey at The Quick And The Ed: To recruit and retain good teachers, schools need a lot more than merit pay–they need strong leadership, good facilities, safe working conditions, and the right kind of organizational culture. You can’t paper over the lack of those things by simply tacking on a salary bonus, even a big one, to the existing steps-and-lanes pay scale. That’s what most most “merit pay” plans have been, historically, and that’s why they haven’t worked. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Kevin Carey at The Quick And The Ed: To recruit and retain good teachers, schools need a lot more than merit pay–they need strong leadership, good facilities, safe working conditions, and the right kind of organizational culture. You can’t paper over the lack of those things by simply tacking on a salary bonus, even a big one, to the existing steps-and-lanes pay scale. That’s what most most “merit pay” plans have been, historically, and that’s why they haven’t worked. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: NancyEH</title>
		<link>http://www.quickanded.com/2009/09/the-meaning-of-merit-pay.html/comment-page-1#comment-1683</link>
		<dc:creator>NancyEH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Sep 2009 23:57:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.quickanded.com/?p=7682#comment-1683</guid>
		<description>As a union rep who just left a meeting with several teachers (and other staff) who are trying to figure out how to deal with a bully for a Principal, it&#039;s very clear to me that the core premise that good &quot;subjective managerial judgement&quot; is universally available is erroneous.  I simply do not trust many principals I know to do a good, fair job evaluating teachers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a union rep who just left a meeting with several teachers (and other staff) who are trying to figure out how to deal with a bully for a Principal, it&#8217;s very clear to me that the core premise that good &#8220;subjective managerial judgement&#8221; is universally available is erroneous.  I simply do not trust many principals I know to do a good, fair job evaluating teachers.</p>
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		<title>By: &#8220;An Unavoidable Element of Subjectivity&#8221; at The Core Knowledge Blog</title>
		<link>http://www.quickanded.com/2009/09/the-meaning-of-merit-pay.html/comment-page-1#comment-1680</link>
		<dc:creator>&#8220;An Unavoidable Element of Subjectivity&#8221; at The Core Knowledge Blog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Sep 2009 15:05:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.quickanded.com/?p=7682#comment-1680</guid>
		<description>[...] need much more than merit pay to recruit and retain good teachers, argues Kevin Carey at the Quick and the Ed.  &#8220;They need strong leadership, good facilities, safe working conditions, and the right kind [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] need much more than merit pay to recruit and retain good teachers, argues Kevin Carey at the Quick and the Ed.  &#8220;They need strong leadership, good facilities, safe working conditions, and the right kind [...]</p>
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		<title>By: R-Squared</title>
		<link>http://www.quickanded.com/2009/09/the-meaning-of-merit-pay.html/comment-page-1#comment-1676</link>
		<dc:creator>R-Squared</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Sep 2009 04:11:11 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>We will not be able to tackle seniority until we tackle pensions. The huge payoff teachers receive for staying in the system make the costs of moving away from seniority, particularly when there is a RIF, too costly to huge numbers of teachers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We will not be able to tackle seniority until we tackle pensions. The huge payoff teachers receive for staying in the system make the costs of moving away from seniority, particularly when there is a RIF, too costly to huge numbers of teachers.</p>
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		<title>By: john thompson</title>
		<link>http://www.quickanded.com/2009/09/the-meaning-of-merit-pay.html/comment-page-1#comment-1671</link>
		<dc:creator>john thompson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Sep 2009 12:22:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.quickanded.com/?p=7682#comment-1671</guid>
		<description>Kevin,

I agreed with everything you wrote, and then I agree with your commenters.  I just don&#039;t understand why you don&#039;t see Klein and Rhee as examples of bad faith negotiators.  Repudiate their excesses and there are plenty of improvements that we can make together.  

And regarding your link, the last 1/3rd had no relationship with reality.  We can&#039;t replace one bad system with a worst one.  The VAMs described by the New Yorker would cause an exodus of quality teachers from tough schools.  To understand why, read the commenters above.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kevin,</p>
<p>I agreed with everything you wrote, and then I agree with your commenters.  I just don&#8217;t understand why you don&#8217;t see Klein and Rhee as examples of bad faith negotiators.  Repudiate their excesses and there are plenty of improvements that we can make together.  </p>
<p>And regarding your link, the last 1/3rd had no relationship with reality.  We can&#8217;t replace one bad system with a worst one.  The VAMs described by the New Yorker would cause an exodus of quality teachers from tough schools.  To understand why, read the commenters above.</p>
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		<title>By: TH4</title>
		<link>http://www.quickanded.com/2009/09/the-meaning-of-merit-pay.html/comment-page-1#comment-1670</link>
		<dc:creator>TH4</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Sep 2009 04:14:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.quickanded.com/?p=7682#comment-1670</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t want to speak for TFT. But having served as a consultant to labor unions and a middle manager supervising unionized workers, I feel strongly about my own ambivalence on this issue. And I do think I get where TFT is coming from. 

It really comes down to the due process provisions. If you assume that workers can freely represent their interests through collective bargaining, a contract negotiation can safely include merit pay. But no union leader can assume that. The person who wields power over termination, promotion and assignment really determines whether a union can protect its members from management favoritism and punitive retaliation. So labor advocates will tend to see any form of subjective due process as &quot;union busting,&quot; because it means that the manager holds power that can be abused. 

The Denver ProComp system has survived, despite its struggles, in part because many Denver teachers saw the school superintendent (now a U.S. Senator) as a good-faith CEO who would block abuses of a performance pay system. The union&#039;s participation in designing ProComp gave them a comfort level in supporting it. And even that wasn&#039;t quite enough. Why should teachers give this potent authority to, say, the Washington DC superintendent, who seems less trustworthy? 

That being said, I don&#039;t like seniority-based systems. They don&#039;t serve customers well in any industry. It&#039;s just more obvious in education, where the customers are right there in the same room with the workers. But you have to take one of two strategies: break the union and impose it by force (a bad idea in my opinion) or demonstrate good faith to the teachers you want to work with and develop a system they can trust.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t want to speak for TFT. But having served as a consultant to labor unions and a middle manager supervising unionized workers, I feel strongly about my own ambivalence on this issue. And I do think I get where TFT is coming from. </p>
<p>It really comes down to the due process provisions. If you assume that workers can freely represent their interests through collective bargaining, a contract negotiation can safely include merit pay. But no union leader can assume that. The person who wields power over termination, promotion and assignment really determines whether a union can protect its members from management favoritism and punitive retaliation. So labor advocates will tend to see any form of subjective due process as &#8220;union busting,&#8221; because it means that the manager holds power that can be abused. </p>
<p>The Denver ProComp system has survived, despite its struggles, in part because many Denver teachers saw the school superintendent (now a U.S. Senator) as a good-faith CEO who would block abuses of a performance pay system. The union&#8217;s participation in designing ProComp gave them a comfort level in supporting it. And even that wasn&#8217;t quite enough. Why should teachers give this potent authority to, say, the Washington DC superintendent, who seems less trustworthy? </p>
<p>That being said, I don&#8217;t like seniority-based systems. They don&#8217;t serve customers well in any industry. It&#8217;s just more obvious in education, where the customers are right there in the same room with the workers. But you have to take one of two strategies: break the union and impose it by force (a bad idea in my opinion) or demonstrate good faith to the teachers you want to work with and develop a system they can trust.</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin Carey</title>
		<link>http://www.quickanded.com/2009/09/the-meaning-of-merit-pay.html/comment-page-1#comment-1669</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin Carey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Sep 2009 02:34:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.quickanded.com/?p=7682#comment-1669</guid>
		<description>TFT-

Why does this automatically equal union busting? Couldn&#039;t a union negotiate minimum starting salaries, total compensation, health and pension benefits, non-insane due process provisions, and still be a union?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>TFT-</p>
<p>Why does this automatically equal union busting? Couldn&#8217;t a union negotiate minimum starting salaries, total compensation, health and pension benefits, non-insane due process provisions, and still be a union?</p>
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		<title>By: Corey</title>
		<link>http://www.quickanded.com/2009/09/the-meaning-of-merit-pay.html/comment-page-1#comment-1668</link>
		<dc:creator>Corey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Sep 2009 02:08:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.quickanded.com/?p=7682#comment-1668</guid>
		<description>Of course, they&#039;re both right.  Merit pay is designed to encourage better performance and to retain high-achieving teachers -- as well as to create a &quot;fairer&quot; pay system that rewards high-performance.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Of course, they&#8217;re both right.  Merit pay is designed to encourage better performance and to retain high-achieving teachers &#8212; as well as to create a &#8220;fairer&#8221; pay system that rewards high-performance.</p>
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		<title>By: TH4</title>
		<link>http://www.quickanded.com/2009/09/the-meaning-of-merit-pay.html/comment-page-1#comment-1667</link>
		<dc:creator>TH4</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Sep 2009 01:24:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.quickanded.com/?p=7682#comment-1667</guid>
		<description>TFT&#039;s comment is expressed in a defensive, circle-the-wagons way, but it gets at a real issue, which is the complex tension between meritocracy and seniority. 

Of course subjective evaluation (along with data analysis) can lead to better salary and assignment decisions. But it can also be used to elevate cronies, punish reformers, and push out union activists - thereby destroying teachers&#039; ability to negotiate contracts and speak with a collective voice. 

Decisionmaking based on seniority can damage the responsiveness of a large organization, e.g., a school system. But subjective evaluation can eliminate workers&#039; autonomy, e.g., bust their union. Obviously you don&#039;t endorse this, and there are merit pay programs that seem to be threading the needle. But we have to recognize that the ideal system you describe has opponents with legitimate concerns that should be addressed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>TFT&#8217;s comment is expressed in a defensive, circle-the-wagons way, but it gets at a real issue, which is the complex tension between meritocracy and seniority. </p>
<p>Of course subjective evaluation (along with data analysis) can lead to better salary and assignment decisions. But it can also be used to elevate cronies, punish reformers, and push out union activists &#8211; thereby destroying teachers&#8217; ability to negotiate contracts and speak with a collective voice. </p>
<p>Decisionmaking based on seniority can damage the responsiveness of a large organization, e.g., a school system. But subjective evaluation can eliminate workers&#8217; autonomy, e.g., bust their union. Obviously you don&#8217;t endorse this, and there are merit pay programs that seem to be threading the needle. But we have to recognize that the ideal system you describe has opponents with legitimate concerns that should be addressed.</p>
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		<title>By: TFT</title>
		<link>http://www.quickanded.com/2009/09/the-meaning-of-merit-pay.html/comment-page-1#comment-1666</link>
		<dc:creator>TFT</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Sep 2009 00:42:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.quickanded.com/?p=7682#comment-1666</guid>
		<description>I agree that we can&#039;t attract good teachers with dismal conditions.  But how does union busting fix dismal conditions?  You seem to imply that one begets the other.  I guess this is what happens when you try to make actual circumstances fit your faulty paradigm.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree that we can&#8217;t attract good teachers with dismal conditions.  But how does union busting fix dismal conditions?  You seem to imply that one begets the other.  I guess this is what happens when you try to make actual circumstances fit your faulty paradigm.</p>
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